Weddings?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:17 am

Well, as my shorter, more psycho half is getting more bent on the wedding thing, I'm starting to get okay with it (hell, I was set to sign on the engagement ring today, but she decided to sleep on it).

Anyway, I figured this might be a lighter topic for discussion than the usual politics shit.

I don't know, for certain, if any of you people I regularly bitch at/with are married, though I believe I recall references to spouses from some people.

First off, I'm trying to get her to do some give and take on the ceremony because the wedding shouldn't just be for the bride, it should be important for the groom also, and if he gets to contribute, it will be important to him, or at least that's the way I see it. I'm thinking a steampunk wedding would be interesting (inspired, oddly enough, by a description of typical morning wedding garb for the groom), though to get her to agree to it (and honestly, this is the way I'd do such anyway) I'm looking at true victorian england style steampunk, elegant, but interesting, rather than the brash american, Rick O'Connel thing I tend more towards. I've found some steampunk wedding things and they've gone this route more often than not, so those pictures should help convince her that this can be done without making a mockery of the whole thing.

anyway, who here's married? what was the ceremony like? any advice?

Count Arioch the 28th · Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:31 am

You are mistaken in the fact that it's for the groom. It is not. You are irrelevant to your bride's wishes, it's all about her.

Unless your lady is very unusual, expect your suggestions to be met with the same reaction if you were caught urinating on her dead cat.

Weddings are all about ownership. In older times, it was the ownership of the woman by the man. Now, it's the ownership of you by your new wife.

My advice is that marriage is idiotic, and it gives your wife the power to basically fuck you over whenever she wants to.

But if you do insist on it, might as well hand over your testicles, because you won't be needing them anymore, because you're about to become her bitch.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:39 am

Count, I know you've been dragged through shit, puss and piss because of marriage. Shut up. It's about the bride because society says it is, hell, I don't see the damned thing as neccessary, but she wants to be married because society gives it prestige and status and says that it denotes a further commitment. I have no problem with this, I don't care about marriage, and as such I'm differing to her desires, it doesn't hurt me to be married, and she wants it, so she gets it. Besides, if I get to actually give me co-control of the whole thing, I'll have fun. I'm not your typical guy, by a lot of people's definitaions, I have no balls to hand over, but I'm willing to get married, so I'd say I've got some balls. Unlike those who are to damned afraid to ever consider (another) marriage.

SphereOfFeetMan · Post by **SphereOfFeetMan** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:37 am

Although I am not married, I actually have some important advice: You should both know what the other expects of the marriage. If you don't talk about this now, you will end up in a position where you both assumed something different on how to handle a situation, and a shitstorm will ensue. For example (not that this applies to you): The husband may assume that they will have kids eventually in a few years, while the wife defines a marriage as the last hurdle to cross to have children. Subsequently, she might want to try getting pregnant on the wedding night.

Some areas you need to reach a predefined agreement on:
1 If/when to have children.
2 Basic child-rearing philosophies.
3 Allocation of financial resources.
4 Allocation of time resources.

5 Allocation of time spent together.
6 Commitments to your new extended family. What happens if a parent/sibling asks you both for a huge favor?
7 Job priorities. Will you both move if one or another of you gets a better job offer? What has priority?
8 How will religion influence your lives. Will it influence your children's lives?
9 Allocation of the day to day responsibilities of chores/errands.

10 What are the new boundaries on your interactions with other people? This runs the continuum of an open marriage to no longer spending time in the company of previous lovers.
11 Are there new agreements on time spent with your SO's social groups? This includes family, friends, hobby groups, job related functions, etc.
12 What are your contingency plans if you both fall on hard financial times? What if one of you is unable to contribute for some reason?
13 Etc.

Basically you need to know your spouse's expectations about anything that could strongly influence your lives together.

Hope that helps.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:30 am

Not married here, but advice from having seen a number of marriages fail:

Make sure you know you can put up with any bad habits. Seriously, don't think that your partner is going to change. As long as you both know that neither particularly bothers the other (for instance, maybe one of you likes to set an alarm only to snooze through it for an hour. If this really shits the other in an I-can't-see-past-it way, then it won't work).

But the really big one? Don't stop trying. I'm not saying you were going to, but one of the main killers I've seen is where people, even after a year of cohabitation, still make an effort to keep each other, to do nice things and not let the other down. Once married, some people decide "We're together, bound by law, I don't need to put the effort in". That's a huge problem. Especially when both people do it, then wonder why the other suddenly changed so much.

So if you know you can both put up with each others quirks for as long as you'll both live, and if you both keep putting effort into the relationship instead of taking the marriage for granted, it should work. The best example I've seen is a lady who, on her fourth or fifth marriage (I forget) finally settled in, because she wisened up a bit and he didn't change.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:31 am

Are you asking about weddings? or about marriage?

My advice for the first: is DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LET IT GET BORING. The truly radical differences and horribly embarrassing blunders are what you and your friends and family will remember in the years to come.

My advice for the second is: DO ALL YOU CAN TO MAKE MAKE SURE IT IS AS BORING AS POSSIBLE. You do not want any surprises after you have crossed that legal threshold.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:58 am

I'm one of those people with a spouse.

If you want a steampunk wedding go for it. Don't hedge the entire relationship on it. Part of marriage has taught me is that you get a very intricately complex give-and-take relationship that can work overtly and subtly. If you want it so much and can't live without it, don't budge. But if this wedding is something that she's dreamed about since she was a child (you know, the usual blah-blah societal expectations of a girl kinda thing), and you aren't deadset on this steampunk wedding, give it to her. But be happy as you give it. Don't begrudge this to her. That might seem hard, but try it.
~

Cynic

rapa-nui · Post by **rapa-nui** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:13 am

Ah, the joys of matrimony...

1. You will always now be accountable to someone else. Forget the freedom to do what you please, your spouse will at least want to be informed.

2. Monogamy. Unless you and your spouse negotiate some agreement of openess to the relationship, prepare yourself for stale sex and increasingly infrequent encounters. SPECIALLY if you have children. Sure, people talk about "spicing it up" and whatnot, but really... sex is sex. Eventually, you're going to want a younger woman, and she's gonna look less and less 'appetizing' every day.

3. Help. You will help. Every minute of every day, you will help each other deal with shit you wouldn't have to even think about if you were living on your own. This can be a positive or a negative depending on how often you are giving and how often you are receiving said help.

4. Loss of individual identity. You'll negotiate some things, but, by and large, if you haven't already compromised some part of who you are, you are very VERY lucky.

5. Attachment and loss. Either you die first (oh well, you're dead, you don't care) or she dies first. Then it REALLY sucks, because even though marriage has mostly been a downhill fuck-up, at this point you are so heavily co-dependent your own health and mental state will suffer, possibly to point where you yourself succumb.

6. Cheating and divorce. Hey, it happens. At the very least make sure you don't end up raising someone else's kids. That's a really stupid move.

7. Rooting. You know what can make it really hard to move from job to job? Owning a home that you bought with your wife. Not as much of a problem in the US now, seeing how the housing market is in the toilet and you can probably find good deals if you shop around, but think about who you are taking the home FROM. That's right: some poor married shmucks more than likely.

Most people think of love and marriage as:

But really, it is more:

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:28 am

Getting married is really expensive. Like, as bad as or worse than dying.

Neeeek · Post by **Neeeek** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:37 am

CatharzGodfoot wrote:Getting married is really expensive. Like, as bad as or worse than dying.

Yet, somehow less expensive than getting divorced.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:50 am

My brother had a traditional Vedic ceremony.

Most of the catering/flowers whatever was handled by family or friends. Do this, its heaps cheaper. Don't let people charge you scads for stuff just because the word 'wedding' is appended to the name.

Don't invite every person either of you has ever met. Its expensive and having the largest possible number of people in attendance does not come with a prize.

I'd keep the clerics out of it unless you're both following the same religion. I know a lot of people compromise this but I don't think its a good start.

Whelp, I'm out of actual wedding advice.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:43 pm

My advice?

1) Don't do a huge blowout for the wedding. Seriously, that can be a huge drain of money that you could put towards a house or something.

2) Get along with the in-laws. Call your parents-in-law "Mom" and "Dad", hang out with any new siblings, fuss over babies. Visit occasionally. Offer all aid asked for without external complaint.

3) Say "Love you" at every appropriate opportunity--such as when you're leaving her presence for an extended period of time (Like going to work or before hanging up after a phonecall), or when she's leaving your presence (when she's going to work and the phonecall). Extend this to her family. Hell, extend it to yours if you don't current do this.

TarkisFlux · Post by **TarkisFlux** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:07 pm

Married myself, about 18 months now. I'd go along with most of the advice here, Count's excluded, but I don't think the wedding is actually for either of you. If you're doing a traditional wedding you'll be busy with pictures and greeting guests and standard dances and all sorts of crap. The ceremony is for you, the rest of the wedding is for everyone else and you get to play super host.

My ceremony was a generic christian affair that we mostly used to placate our extended families. It included some traditions from my wife's culture, but I specifically excluded other because I didn't like the symbolism. You can be as involved as you want in the planning, but getting in early and being up front about what you want will save effort later. If you want a steampunk themed ceremony/reception and you think she'd go for the victorian-esque elegance, work it out with her already. Just please have your union blessed by an elder god.

My full ceremony/reception deal was very expensive, but we knew that we wanted to throw a big expensive party when we went into it. You can save wads of cash by shopping around, using a location that lets you bring in an outside caterer, and not paying for an open bar. Ya know, being a standard decent consumer. My big expenses were site rental, food, and booze (and if I hadn't hosted an open bar it wouldn't have been that bad). Decide early on what you want in general (DJ, photos, video, flowers, dinner or lunch, appetizers, indoor/outdoor, etc.) and start pricing things out. It's much easier to manage expectations early on, before the emotional investment, and if you have to cut something for budget reasons or save more cash to make it work you can do that.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:12 am

I don't make much of the marriage thing.

You need to make yourself happy. A relationship is a heavy weight, not a buoy. It'll take you down easily if you aren't able to swim on your own.

That past, I've been with my Sammi for ten years this last July. I think the style of the wedding should certainly be something you put thought into, and have fun with. Just don't make it too difficult to manage.

-Crissa

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:50 am

Neeeek wrote:
CatharzGodfoot wrote:Getting married is really expensive. Like, as bad as or worse than dying.
Yet, somehow less expensive than getting divorced.

Marriage + married life + divorce tends to cost more than simply hiring a prostitute 3+ hours/week, every week for the duration. So yeah, they are indeed expensive. That's why you should make sure you love the person you marry and will still love them in sixty years.

And try to cut corners such as getting family/friends to do the flowers and things. When my Mum remarried, the groom arranged for filming and photography with some of his friends, as he owned a photo shop and was a professional photographer. He obviously couldn't do it himself, being the groom, but knew the right people, and they saved a very nice amount on that.

Hey_I_Can_Chan · Post by **Hey_I_Can_Chan** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:55 pm

8 years in, and still going.

The ceremony is for you, the rest of the wedding is for everyone else and you get to play super host.

Yes! Fucking right. In fact, I'd go further, it's all about everyone else. The wife and I were married at the local Dave and Busters (which has a nice meeting room that held our 100 or so guests). The venue catered. We got everyone who attended a $5 PowerCard. We rended the video golf and shuffleboard stations. We delivered our own vows in our own voices. We limited the officiant's speaking time to 10 minutes (we got some random woman off the Internet to do our ceremony--the wife and I are non-religious). No traveling. I didn't even wear a goddamn tie (which was one of my conditions).

The wedding remains the point of comparison for awesome weddings for everyone who attended. It was perfect and hitchless.

Make your wedding fun. If your wedding is boring or stupid, you're doing it wrong. Especially--if you're unrhythmic white folk like we are--if you can't dance. No one wants to stare at an empty dance floor for 3 hours.

(As an aside, the wife and I agreed to no dancing. We danced, however, on stage (to Icehouse's cover of Simple Minds "Let There Be Love") just so everyone could see us do that, but we knew our guests weren't dancers, so fuck it: no dancing. Oh, we also took dance lessons for a couple of hours so we wouldn't fuck it up.)

Post by **Zherog** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:45 pm

I'm married 14 years (as of last week) and together with my wife for 20 years. There's a ton of good advice in this thread, both on weddings themselves and maintaining a marriage. I'm going to echo a whole lot of stuff that has been said already, but (maybe) put my own spin on it.

Wedding

Generally speaking, Arioch is correct -- weddings are (again, generally speaking) more for the bride than the groom. However, that doesn't mean it can't be for you. In a lot of cases, the guy just doesn't give a flying fuck and goes along with what the woman wants. The fact that you have cool ideas is great; if your finance likes those ideas, you'll have a memorable wedding. Josh is completely correct -- people will remember the parts that are different, so go for it.

That all said, Maxus is exactly correct that you shouldn't go for the huge blowout affair if doing so would put even a hint of strain on your finances. We were able to purchase a house 3-4 years after getting married. In hindsight, I would've preferred to spend less on the reception and purchase the house several years earlier.

HiCC and Tarkis also have great advice about the reception being for your guests. That said, just as HiCC said, if you don't want something then don't have it. If you think the whole "throw the bouquet and garter" thing is retarded, then skip it. If you think a sit-down formal dinner is a stupid idea, then don't do it.

Your Victorian Steampunk idea sounds like a great place to start towards making your wedding memorable to your guests.

Marriage

Expect to have to work on it every. fucking. day. It's sometimes more work than a full-time job. And if you're planning on having children, lemme tell you right now - they make everything more complicated.

Make sure you and your lady understand what each other expects for things like finances, kids, and all that good stuff.

rapa-nui wrote:2. Monogamy. Unless you and your spouse negotiate some agreement of openess to the relationship, prepare yourself for stale sex and increasingly infrequent encounters. SPECIALLY if you have children. Sure, people talk about "spicing it up" and whatnot, but really... sex is sex. Eventually, you're going to want a younger woman, and she's gonna look less and less 'appetizing' every day.

Without getting into details... I can say that after 20 years of having sex with the same woman, it hasn't gotten stale. It has - at times - become less frequent, but like most things in life it's an ebb and flow sort of thing. Children do, in fact, have a huge impact on your sex life -- more than you'll ever expect.

Like all things in marriage, you have to work at it. It only becomes stale if you let it become stale.

rapa-nui · Post by **rapa-nui** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:02 am

You can also keep a gargantuan amount of porn on your computer somewhere. It will help.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:07 am

rapa-nui wrote:You can also keep a gargantuan amount of porn on your computer somewhere. It will help.

But be honest about it. Say "I would like to keep a gargantuan amount of porn on my PC - for when you don't feel like having sex, or if I really just want to go it alone for a while. I have no intention of going around advertising this to people, though. I'm also more than happy if you want to do the same. Preferably not in the same folder on the same PC though."

Not mentioning it will, when it's eventually found*, lead to problems, because if you didn't mention it then that means you feel guilty about it and that makes it dishonest.

*And it will.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:35 pm

Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that Prak's motivation for getting married is to get his girlfriend to shut up, and his girlfriend's motivation seems to be that it's "the thing to do"? This kind of thing has been the foundation for at least one marriage that I know of that ended with somebody cheating.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:43 pm

Absentminded_Wizard wrote:Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that Prak's motivation for getting married is to get his girlfriend to shut up, and his girlfriend's motivation seems to be that it's "the thing to do"? This kind of thing has been the foundation for at least one marriage that I know of that ended with somebody cheating.

I did not know that.

If that is the case, I'd highly advise you rethink your reasoning for marriage. But if you still want to do it, go ahead. But, it'll be a waste of money,time, emotions, shit, fuckload-of-everything on your part.

EDIT: had to add a few more of Wastes in there

Count Arioch the 28th · Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:52 pm

Absentminded_Wizard wrote:Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that Prak's motivation for getting married is to get his girlfriend to shut up, and his girlfriend's motivation seems to be that it's "the thing to do"? This kind of thing has been the foundation for at least one marriage that I know of that ended with somebody cheating.

That was the root of my comments. Of course, he yelled at me because somehow my past makes me less credible. And the fact that I'm not willing to get married means I have less balls. (Which might be true, I'd say the guy that got his hand bitten off by a crocodile that still sticks his hand in their mouths and taunts them has more balls than I do. Less brains, but beats me on balls by at least 7.)

Let's take a bet on how long their marriage lasts. I'm putting five sticks of gum on four months.

Edit: That's assuming you were referring to my marriage. If you weren't, then you know of at least 2 marriages then.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:53 pm

I didn't see Prak say that. Can he chime in on this?

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:48 am

"Well, as my shorter, more psycho half is getting more bent on the wedding thing, I'm starting to get okay with it" Can easily be read as: "My girlfriend wants to get married and I don't think marriage is all that bad." At the least Prak doesn't sound that enthused.

Absentminded_Wizard · Post by **Absentminded_Wizard** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:08 pm

And in his second post Prak writes that "she wants to be married because society gives it prestige and status and says that it denotes a further commitment." It sounds like she wants to get married because of social pressures rather than a deep desire to spend the rest of her life with Prak.

I have no personal experience of marriage. However, what I've seen of other people's marriages leads me to believe that a marriage is more likely to succeed if both parties are doing it for the second reason.